Transcript 0:00 [whooshing] If you've ever wanted to tell someone to shut up and eat, then you need the Shut Up and Eat shop. 0:06 It's the place to buy T-shirts and sweatshirts, trucker caps and baby onesies, aprons and coasters, all adorned with our slogan and our adorable mascots. 0:16 Check it out at shop.shutupandeat.com and use code PODLOVER to take 10% off your first order. [whooshing] Then this dude came up and ordered the whole menu. 0:27 [laughs] And then ate, like, it- it's just kind of tasted it, ate it, kinda ate around it, and then he was just like, "Hey, would you be interested in working in Shanghai?" [laughs] What? 0:36 [laughs] Yeah, and I was like, "I mean, yeah. I mean, sure. Like, that sounds, that sounds cool," you know? But I just, I took it with a grain, grain of salt, you know, and I was like, "Yeah, whatever." Hmm. 0:47 And he was like, "Can I get your email?" And then I took my email, you know, and then two weeks later I was on a flight to Shanghai, so. Whoa. 0:55 [upbeat music] Hi, welcome to Shut Up and Eat, the podcast about food, restaurants, chefs, cooking, and everything else we're obsessed with. I'm Cathy Erway. And I'm Matt Gross. 1:08 We're both New Yorkers who love to cook, eat, travel, and write. This week we're talking to Chef Fidel Caballero of Coraima, a progressive Mexican restaurant with global influences. 1:20 Be sure to subscribe to this podcast and sign up for our weekly newsletter, an essential part of the Shut Up and Eat experience. And now our conversation with Chef Fidel. You know my love is sweet. Cathy, 1:36 do you remember the bad old days of Mexican dining in New York City? The bad old days. Um, yeah, I mean, New York got a lot of flack from people on the West Coast about not having any good Mexican food, yada, yada. Yes. 1:52 So kind of, yeah. [laughs] Do you remember any me- any meals from, any standout meals from the- No... Dark Ages? I mean, I don't, I don't recall there being a standout until some point in the mid-2000s. 2:09 Um, what am I thinking of? You know, there was a lot of just, like, sort of so, so-so burrito places. [laughs] Oh, yeah. There was always, like, Benny's Burritos- Benny's Burritos... Barry's Burritos- Um, like-... 2:21 Abby's Burritos... Avenue C or something. [laughs] Yeah, I remember that place. My, my first years in New York in the '90s I lived in the Lower East Side, and there were two Mexican places of note in that area. 2:33 There was, uh, El Sombrero, uh, known as Hat Restaurant. Ne- not The Hat, but Hat Restaurant- Mm-hmm... in English. Okay. And that was, like, your old school, you know, enchiladas and rice and beans kinda place, 2:48 um, which was... It was fun, but not exceptional. Uh, and there was 2:54 a, a little dingy place on the corner of Allen Street and Rivington called Tres Aztecas, which I went to a lot because it was one of the very, very few places that had, like, corn tortillas. 3:07 So- Amazing, like, corn tortillas... Three Aztecs? Yeah. Tres Aztecas? Okay. Yep, exactly. Got it. It had really good lengua, tongue tacos- Mm... 3:16 that I would go to again and again, and, like, this was about it for me, in the, especially in the Lower East Side, where I lived. Uh, but things have changed a lot in the last nearly 25 or 30 years. 3:28 And, uh, you and I recently went, went to, uh, Coraima, which is just a few blocks down from where Tres Aztecas used to be. [laughs] And, um, it's slightly different from enchiladas- Yeah... 3:41 and rice and beans and, uh, tongue tacos. It, it's, it was so good. It really blew me away. 3:48 I mean, this place is, it's on an unassuming little dusty corner of sort of, I think, technically Chinatown, Lower East Side, um, adjacent. But, uh, yeah, it's... The, the cooking coming out of that place is 4:03 really creative but with a lot of soul, you know? Hmm. And I, I think this chef has really honed his craft at, at tons of restaurants. Um, he was at Contra. 4:11 He was, he's been at three Michelin starred restaurants in Spain. He's cooked around the world, in fact. 4:17 Um, and he's striking out on his own and just really coming out with, like, incredible creativity on the plate, but also i, it harkens to his home- hometown of Chihuahua in, in Mexico. Hmm. 4:31 So it, it was really fun stuff. What, what were your, what were the dishes that, that we ate that sold you on Coraima as an exceptional spot? I think the first one... 4:41 Well, the t- the tortilla that came out was exceptional. 4:45 It's a flour tortilla from Northern Mexican, um, style, and it was, it reminded us all of a scallion pancake, but it was also served with this wonderfully spiced butter. 4:57 So it was kind of like your take on the bread and butter course. But the way that it, like, it was, like, a little chewy. It was a little crispy on the outside. It was so satisfying. 5:07 And, um, but the other dish that really blew me away and, like, was like, I was like, "This is... Where are we?" Is that, um, that take on... It was sort of like the take on beef tartare- Hmm... 5:18 um, that y- you thought was gonna be like a jerky. [laughs] That wasn't. Well, no, it, so I think it was the, the beef... Was it, uh, sort of like a beef tartare tlayuda? Wasn't that it? Yes, that's right. Yeah. 5:30 Yes, it's, mm-hmm. So tlayuda is, like, a Oaxacan sort of pizza it's often called, like a big tortilla topped with all these things. Uh, and this was topped with, I think it was a beef tartare, and was it edamame also? 5:45 What was... And there was, uh, chapulines, which are the, the fried grasshoppers that are popular as a Oaxacan snack. Yes. 5:53 But it did not look, it did not look anything like the traditional Oaxacan tlayudas I'd had before. This was pretty deconstructed and reconstructed. 6:02 Yeah, so the, the menu was just full of surprises, which was really fun. Yeah. 6:07 And it felt like, you know, they call themselves a progressive Mexican restaurant, and progressive sort of seems to mean, yes, it's Mexican at heart, but it's got all these influences from the rest of the world that felt really, 6:22 uh, just really easily integrated into what progressive Mexican food is supposed to be, right? It's not like just, you know, pork and beans and corn again and again and again. It was, um, you know, there's caviar. 6:38 [laughs] Um, I see mimolette cheese on their menu. They just, uh, are able to, like, take all these things from all over the world and sort of make them Mexican, which is a really cool thing. 6:49 And then to get that in New York feels sort of extra special. 6:54 Yeah, and he brought that distinctly Northern Mexican, um, you know, uh, flavor and, and techniques and recipes that he was drawing from as his inspiration, which I think was refreshing as well. 7:06 I mean, we've seen upscale, we've seen, you know, upscale modern Mexican food before. Uh, Cosme, uh, has been around since 2014- Mm... um, and it, and it's brilliant. 7:18 But I, I think that he's actually, uh, Fidel Ca- Caballero, that is, is, is really pushing 7:25 Mexican food forward, and also showing the regionality, but not in like a super hyper, like, regionally authentic way, but, you know, taking his own creative risks within, um, the Northern Mexican cuisine. 7:38 So it, it, it was all very fresh. I mean, and I'm not even an expert here, but it was- [laughs]... it was really exciting. Where's he gonna go next? Like, w- does, does he have a sense of, you know, what... 7:49 Is this the end product, or is this a step onto something else? I mean, he's o- he's on his journey, which is very exciting. I can't wait to see what he does next. 7:59 So I think that, you know, we- let's hear more from him and, and where he thinks, um, it's going with our conversation with Fidel. Yeah, let's do it. 8:09 [whoosh] Hey, listeners, if you liked this episode and want even more Shut Up and Eat, you should subscribe to our newsletter. 8:16 Each week, Cathy and I provide deeper insight on our podcast interviews, analyze restaurant culture, and write about our favorite new food finds, including Google Maps of everywhere from NYC to Montreal to Tokyo. 8:29 Sign up at shutupandeat.com. That's Shut Up and Eat, not Shut Up and Eat. [upbeat music] Tell me, where are you right now, and what's going on in your restaurant right now? 8:46 First of all, thank you so much for the invite. Of course. It's, uh, I'm very excited to be on the show. Um, not much. We're just getting ready for service, you know. Yeah. I'm at Carima. We're, uh, we're prepping away. 8:55 It's prep. We usually start, like, around 11:00. Mm-hmm. Like, around 10:00, 11:00, depending on how much work. And then, uh, yeah, and then we just pedal to the metal. Yep, yep. 9:06 So appreciate your taking the time out here. 9:08 So I mean, first things first, your, your restaurant Carima, you also have Vato, which I wanna talk about as well, but Carima is about two years old now, and you've been nominated for a James Beard Award for Best Chef New York State. 9:24 Uh, Carima sits at number 36 in The World's, uh, Best 50 List. It's number 37 in The New York Times Best 100 List. So what is all this critical success and recognition mean to you right now? 9:39 Surprising, or- I mean, yeah... what you hope for? I mean, a little bit of both. You know, it's surprising. You know, we're, you know, we're, we're very, we're very blessed, and, you know, we're very excited. 9:49 And, uh, you know, it was definitely, uh, you know, we got our first Michelin star, uh, 10 months in, you know? So, you know, obviously that means, uh, you know, the world to us- That's, yeah... 10:01 it means everything to us. And, uh, you know, it's just kinda like hard way, you know, hard work pays off. And I think, you know, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's something that, you know, you can physically touch now, you know? 10:12 'Cause everybody says it, you know? It's something that it just, we kept, keep being repeated, that hard work pays off, until you actually see. Amazing. That doesn't mean, that doesn't mean it came out easy, you know? 10:24 Yeah, for sure. We got our first, our first year and a half of, uh, of the restaurant we didn't have any gas, you know? [laughs] Uh, yeah. We were cooking with two, uh, induction- Such a New York story, yeah. 10:36 [laughs] Oh my God. Con Ed. Is it? Yeah, Con Ed. There you go. So- [laughs] Well, at least, you know. But that's- So that's kinda- That's major, though. A year and a half. That's- A year and a half... 10:47 that's, that's pretty, y- you know, I understand you did some improvisation, and it seems to have worked out pretty well. So- Yeah... congrats to that. 10:55 [laughs] We got, we got told this, we got told, uh, that we were getting gas a week before we opened our doors. Okay. You're like, "Great." So we were- Uh-huh... 11:03 like, "Oh," and I had a, like, a pancake flat top at home, you know? Uh-huh, yeah. [laughs] So whenever you get, like, people for breakfast, like, people at home for breakfast, like, you just- Yeah... 11:13 pull that out 'cause it's easier to make pancakes- Mm-hmm... and, like, crack some eggs on it. And, uh, well, that's what we used for the first week- [laughs]... until, until the big guys showed up. 11:22 And then we started using an electric, like, kinda, like, food truck flat. So basically, like, we feel like- Mm... a food truck had more equipment- [laughs]... you know, than what we have here. Yeah. 11:31 So, you know, um, so that was that. And then- Amazing... yeah, we got, we got into these two lists, um, without gas, so we're very proud of that. Yeah. Well, congratulations again. 11:43 [bass music] So, um, we love asking everyone this question on Shut Up and Eat, so if you could take us back, way back to your first cooking memory ever. Like, what is the first thing you think you ever cooked, ever? 12:01 Like, not in a restaurant. Um- Pasta. Pasta? Yeah? I think so, yeah. How old? Like, cooking cooking? Yeah. No, you know what? Fried eggs. A fried egg. Ah, okay. A fried egg. 12:11 Yeah, a fried egg was something that, you know. I think we were, I was five or six. Okay... you know, uh, cracked an egg for the first time. Yeah Do you just, like, watch- I think, like- Uh, and watch and repeat... 12:23 my s- I have an older sister. Mm-hmm. I have an older sister, and I have a- an, you know, my parents. Uh, and my parents. Just saw my mom doing it, like, on the weekends, and, and yeah. Yeah. That's how it works. 12:34 And it was, it was, it was that. It was that. And, uh, yeah, I saw my sis- my sister was like, "I'm done." I remember, like, my m- my sister was like, "I'm done doing that for you. It's time for you to do it yourself." 12:43 [laughs] That's it. And, uh, she was just being mean. She was just being mean, and then I was like, "I'll do it myself." Oh. I think I was six. Ooh. And it was cracking an egg. And I think from there, you know. Yeah. 12:54 I mean, that's not where it started, you know, but yeah, that's my first memory. Yeah. That's a great skill. That's a good one. Um, interestingly, Pa- Paul Carmichael of, of Cabala said that was his first memory as well. 13:06 Really? Um, yeah. So you know, there's, uh, interesting lines, uh, you know, connections here. I think it's one of those things that that's like a first survival thing you learn. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. 13:16 You know, you're like- I eat an egg... these are edible. Mm-hmm. Yeah, these are edible. Mm-hmm And if you throw 'em in a pan, you're, like, you can live forever. Make it hot. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. 13:23 [laughs] Make- Yeah, you can just, you know. It, uh, so I think, yeah, yeah. No. So I know you have a very diverse culinary background when it comes to cooking for professionally. 13:33 Um, what is the first restaurant dish that you ever cooked, if you can recall? Pizza. Pizza. In- Yeah, pizza... in, uh- In El Paso... El Paso. Okay. Yeah, in El Paso. 13:46 I just worked at this, like, uh, kinda like pizza shop, you know. Mm-hmm. 13:51 You know, I, I was a dishwasher there, but the first thing I cooked like that, it was like, you know, I was w- dishwasher, and they were like, "So can I just try one?" I remember, like, asking, like- [laughs] You know. 14:00 And it's one of those, like, local, like, Italian joints. Every- Okay... every single town has it, you know. I see. Uh, and it was one of those, so you know, I was like, "Can I just try one?" 14:09 Not, not trying to be, you know, special pizza, just, you know, plain old- Pepperoni pizza... pizza place. It was one of those, like, can I... You know, it's kinda like, we used to get like a meal, you know. Mm-hmm. 14:20 Like, you can pick whatever on the menu or whatever, and I was like, "I'll do it." And I remember the, the, the cook that time was like, "You should make it yourself." And I was like, "Yeah, dude." 14:28 [laughs] "It'll be awesome." So that was the first thing I did. Yeah. And you were in high school, or what, how old were you? I was in high school. I was in high school. Yeah. All right. 14:36 I was, that was my senior year in high school. All right. Senior year of high school, was still playing in bands. 14:41 [laughs] Playing in punk bands and, you know, kind of the hardcore scene, and then just, uh, I needed a job, and that was my job on the weekends and like weekdays. 14:49 It was more the weekdays 'cause the weekends we would play sh- like- Mm-hmm... you know, shows, you know, with the band. We thought we were gonna make it, you know? [laughs] Sounds like good times. I love it. 14:59 Um, punk rock pizza. Yeah. So c- uh, I guess jumping ahead here, you have a really global resume in kitchens. You've, you know, lived in Shanghai. You've lived in the Basque Country. 15:11 Uh, you started a pop-up series in 2020. Then you took that around the world, cooking in places like France and Mexico City. 15:19 So I, I guess I'm curious, like, how has all this global experience changed your perspective or influenced your cooking, and which regions do you think have impacted you the most? 15:32 I think the difference, you, like, uh, the type of f- I think restaurants of, like, like Cotima- Mm-hmm... all have a certain, you know, like a, a uniqueness to it, and it's, uh, it's, it's from, you know, chefs, like... 15:46 It's the chef's perspective. You know? More than just food, it's the chef's perspective, and it's, uh, and it's kinda the, the idea that we have here at Cotima, that it's, uh, 15:55 how we see food with all the experience, or not just experience, but all these, you know, uh, memories. You know? Mm-hmm. 16:04 Like, for us, is, uh, it's, uh, has to do a lot with, like, childhood memories combined with, like, traveling, you know, memories. Mm-hmm. And, and, and, uh, 16:15 and, uh, I say it all the time, but it's like we cook, like, homesick cooking. You know? Like, you know, like, in Shanghai was one of the first ones. It was like, you know, you st- you know, like, it was homesick. 16:26 That was, like, my biggest culture shock, right? And, uh, and, uh, was just a kid from El Paso, and, uh, and for me it was just, I was 22 years old, and- And what led you to Shanghai at 23 years old? 16:41 Like, w- did you pick it? It's- Did you just- It's a crazy story. Okay. [laughs] Like, it's such a crazy story. Like, uh, we were outside of a show. I had a food truck at, when I was 23, and I thought we were... 16:54 Again, I always had this, like, you know, like, this thing where it's, like, either the music was like, you know, we're gonna d- it was like kinda being your own boss at all times. You know? 17:04 Like, so it was like, kinda like do music, and then, like, I tried it, and I mean, I did it for, for years. And then it was like we got a food truck, my best friend and I, like, when we were in culinary school. 17:14 So we were going to culinary school, and we were, like, doing the food truck thing in El Paso. Okay. So we had a food truck, and we were, like, parking outside the shows 'cause we knew all the shows. 17:25 Uh, and we'll just park outside, and we'll sell food. And, and sorry. And- What, what was, uh, your food truck specialty? Was it tacos? Was it- I mean, it was, yeah, it was like taco- tacos. It was, like, burgers. 17:36 It was just- Okay... like truck food, you know. Got it. Got it. Like- Junk food. Uh, yeah. Show food, yeah. Cool. Show food, you know. 17:43 And, uh, and one time we just parked outside of one, and some, this dude came up and ordered the whole menu. 17:48 [laughs] And then ate, like, it, it's just kinda tasted it, ate it, kinda ate around it, and then he was just like, "Hey, would you be interested in working in Shanghai?" [laughs] What? [laughs] Yeah. 17:59 And I was like, "I mean, yeah. I mean, sure. Like, that sounds, that sounds cool." You know? But I just, I took it with a grain, grain of salt, you know, and I was like, "Yeah, whatever." Mm-hmm. 18:08 And he was like, "Can I get your email?" And then I took my email. You know, and then two weeks later I was on a flight to Shanghai. Whoa So. That's pretty wild. All right. Yeah, it's very cool. So- 18:22 You know, that was the biggest. I mean, I already traveled to Europe at that time- Mm-hmm... you know, kinda like did the, the whole backpacking after we, I graduated from high school. 18:29 But, you know, never experienced, uh, Asia. That was my first experience with Asia, and, you know, it was, it was phenomenal. It changed, kind of it changed my life. Yeah. 18:38 Definitely changed my life and the way I see food, and to see the way I see flavors and, and, and, uh, kinda flavor combinations. 18:45 And when you're 23 years old and you're, you know, around the world, like you're, you're half around the world, it's just, you know, it- you still kind of miss home, you know? 18:55 Like, I feel the older you get, it's easier for you to let go or understand what you're going through. Yeah. 19:01 You know it has an ending or whatnot, and when you're like, when you're 23 and like you just landed in Shanghai in this like huge city, like- Mm... by the fourth month you're already like, "Dude, like I need something." 19:12 [laughs] And I found a lot of com- I found a lot of comfort in, uh, scallion pancakes. Yeah. And it kinda ta- it kinda tasted like a flour tortilla, kinda used it like a flour tortilla. 19:22 So that's a perfect example of how we see food here at Curima. It's, uh, now our recipe has a, a mix between- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm... a flour tortilla and a scallion pancake. Yeah. I love that dish. 19:37 Uh, our whole team of Shut Up & Eat, that is, came to, and, uh, you know, the first thing we got was this flour tortilla. Totally reminded us of a really good scallion pancake or roti, and, um, minus the scallions. 19:51 But we didn't miss them at all, because it's all about the bread, right? And I love how you- Yeah, exactly... yeah, just recreated that feeling though. 19:58 We, we thought of scallion pancakes, though, as we were tearing into it as well, so. Yeah, it has that like layers. Yeah. You know? Like it's just- Absolutely. It just- Kinda feels laminated. 20:08 It's, it's like, it's something that like, you know, a lot of restaurants might just, you know, take for granted or, like maybe even get frozen. That's to- totally fine. 20:17 You know, if it's not your forte, it's not your forte. But when you have a really good one, it just stops you in your tracks, so. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. 20:27 [upbeat music] You know, at Curima, the website, the description, it says that it's taking inspiration from your native Chihuahua in Northern Mexico. Yeah. But specifically it says the desert of, of Northern Mexico. 20:43 Tell me a little bit about what makes Curima desert-inspired Mexican cuisine. I mean, simplicity. You know, some of it's simplicity. 20:52 You know, we, we come from, uh, a place where like, I'm not sure if you're like familiar with, with the White Sands and, you know, familiar with, you know, Samaipata. And these places are like just, uh, uh, 21:06 there's just, uh, it's... You know, it's just simplicity, and yet technique. Mm-hmm. Like, and we find the same thing, you know? And, um, it's that. It's also like celebration of like where we from. 21:16 It's like bunch of cattle. Cattle. Uh- Mm-hmm... yeah, it's like a lotta, a lot of beef. And, uh, and it kinda gives us that, you know, that feeling of, uh, celebrating what we do, and where we come from. 21:30 Just, uh, that's kinda like the, the inspiration behind it. And, you know, there's a huge community of Mennonite, you know, like Amish, uh, Mennonites in, in Chihuahua, and people don't realize that, you know? 21:40 And, uh, and, and, and also like the, our uses, usage of cream, our usage of, of, uh, of dairy and wheat and, you know, like all these things are inspirations, and that's like the Chihuahuan desert. Mm. 21:51 And that's all created there. And, you know, it's one of those things that we don't really, people don't really see it, and people don't, don't hear, people don't hear about it. People don't hear about Northern Mexico. 22:01 People don't hear- Mm-hmm... about, you know, that like most of the best, you know, cattle in the United States comes from this region. You know, they just get finished in, in the, the United States, you know. 22:11 It's much easier and much cheaper to grow cattle in Mexico, just finish it with the States, you know, and this is not celebrated. Mm. 22:18 And it's, uh, and, and we found this niche, and we found this gap, and we found this, this moment, more than anything, to celebrate these things. 22:26 And to, and to, and to, to, to showcase Northern Mexico and the desert just as important as Oaxaca and its mole- Mm-hmm... or Mexico City and its taco al pastor, you know? 22:37 So it kinda gives you that idea of like, uh, of, uh, showcasing something so important and so culture-sh- uh, like, you know, uh, importance to, to, you know, to the rest of the world. 22:51 And I think New York is a perfect, uh, state, uh, perfect like, uh, stage for that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 22:58 I love that, yeah, it's, it's not trying to be like a regional, like, you know, education, like here are like the best, you know, known dishes from the region. But it's taking that inspiration and like- Exactly... 23:09 it, and, and really just, yeah, um, taking it in different, all sorts of directions that are personal to you. 23:15 Which I find, you know, I'm not like a scholar on Mexican food, although I did probably binge-watch every episode of Pati's Mexican Table. Uh, [laughs] shout-out to Pati Jinich. 23:27 But, you know, I, I think that it, it's, there's so, it's so diverse, and it's so vast. And to focus on just the few areas that I think a lot of people have that, like name recognition about, Oaxacan, as you mentioned. 23:41 Um- Or like Tulum, you know? Mm. Like Tulum is beautiful, but like- Mm-hmm... I get it. Of course it is. But, you know, like the desert is awesome, you know? Like the Bajas are awesome too. 23:52 Um, yeah, it's just like, it's, it, it, it's beautiful. Like everybody talks about s- uh, mezcal, you know? Like everybody like now it's a mezcal head. 24:01 And for us it's like sotol is also there to stay, and, you know, and, uh, and sotol is awesome, and, and it's, it should be talked about. Yeah. Yeah. 24:12 I, and, you know, that's, that's kind of new to me, admittedly, 'cause, you know, I just hadn't come around a restaurant like yours before. So thank you for educating us on- Of course... 24:21 not just mezcal or [laughs] tequila. It's, there's a whole world of beverages and spirits. Yeah. There's, there's bacanora. There's, you know, there's all these different things that are, you know, yet to be discovered. 24:32 And it's so, like it's, it's awesome that I can be part of like, you know, of this. Because, yes, sotol deserves a seat at the table. Uh, northern Mexico and its flour tortillas deserves a seat at the- Yes... 24:47 fine dining table. Yes. And it's very important for us to always look at this food as world-class. Right, right. Yeah. Um, okay, so [laughs] 24:58 hopefully a fun question for you, but, uh, you know, Mexican food is one of those cuisines that has a long history in America, in restaurants that is, and, you know- Oh, yes... 25:08 similar to, like, Chinese and Indian food, like, there's a distinctly, like, Americanized version of it in restaurants. 25:15 So I'm thinking of, like, you know, Tex-Mex, the kind of typical, like, takeout menu that, um, every town in America has of tacos and burritos and, uh, uh, what else, enchiladas. 25:27 Uh, and so, you know, also just, like, thinking of, like, the stuff in the supermarket, like hard taco shells, old Paso- Old El Paso seasoning mix, and that kind of thing. That's right. [laughs] Yeah. 25:38 Oh, yeah, you're from El Paso, right. So I'm curious, you know, what do you think about this, having grown up in El Paso as well as Chihuahua, um, yeah, did you ever see it growing up, uh, eat it? Uh, not really. Yeah. 25:54 You know, we really didn't eat that type of, uh, uh, Mexican food, you know. 25:59 Tex-Mex, uh, Tex-Mex, we think it belongs, and it should stay, not stay, but it belongs to South, you know, a little more of the Southern, like- Uh-huh... Southern Texas. You know, it belongs to San Antonio. 26:12 San Antonio is kind of the creator of, like, Tex-Mex, and, you know, it's kind of their style, which phenomenal, you know, and I think it's great. Um, it deserves a purpose. It definitely deserves- Mm-hmm... 26:24 a purpose, but no, never really grew up with, you know, 'cause I kind of, I, I grew up in Chihuahua, you know? Mm-hmm. 26:30 Uh, and then we, and then we move up north, and then we started, you know, then we moved to Juarez, and after Juarez, we, you know, ended up in Texas- Mm... in El Paso. 26:40 So, um, uh, there's definitely those restaurants, but it was never that, you know. Like, this r- this restaurant that I, uh, th- there is in, in, in, in El Paso called Chico's Tacos, 26:52 uh, Chico's Tacos is something that, like, El Pasoans love, you know, and natives and, you know, kind of really, really enjoy. Okay. Uh, either you l- either you love them or you hate them, and- [laughs] Yeah... 27:04 I mean, I mean, I'm sorry for the Chico's Taco lovers, but I, it's not just my, my style. It's not your, yeah, yeah. You know? But it's not my, it's not my cup of joe, you know? Uh- Right, right. That's, that's fair. 27:13 Uh, you know, but, but, but it's all this mix, you know, and I think it was just adaptation, you know? Mm-hmm. 27:18 I think it's adaptation, and, and I think, uh, and I think when people think about Northern Mexican food, they also think about these types, you know, of dishes, and it's not really that, you know? Like, all these- No... 27:29 little things deserve- No... its purpose, you know? Um, uh, just like Tex-Mex belongs somewhere, you know, and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, yeah, so, uh- Right, right. 27:40 There's, there's hardly a, a menu item on your, um, a la carte menu at least, and, uh, I, I, I actually got to enjoy the a la carte menu, but I think we ordered almost everything off of it [laughs] when we visited. 27:54 But there's hardly a menu item that sounds like, you know, your average takeout Mexican joint. Like, there's no, nothing called taco or, um, burrito. [laughs] But, um, there is an esquites, and that, 28:11 that was so surprising. Um, I, I just, you kind of like, you know, pulled out so many different components of it. Um, tell me a little bit about your inspiration betwe- behind that dish, actually. 28:25 Uh, it's, in the Basque Country, they serve like arroz meloso, which is kind of like a risotto type. Okay. 28:31 I cooked in the Basque Country for some time, you know, and, uh, and they serve this, like, a kind of risotto-like. 28:38 It's a, it's a creamy rice, and, uh, for me, esquites, uh, esquites are usually, you know, as you know, like corn, you know, like corn in a cup, and they're just- Mm-hmm... prepared on, you know, to go- Seasoned, yeah... 28:51 for me. Yeah, seasoned with lime juice. It has mayo. It has, uh- Mm-hmm... cotija cheese. It has, like, different components that it ta- it only tastes good if you mix it, you know? 29:01 And if you eat the t- the top layer of the esquites- [laughs]... you're left off with a half of a cup- Corn [laughs]... full of just corn. Yeah. [laughs] You know? And that was just kinda so frustrating, you know? 29:11 And it's like, okay, well, this is, this sucks, and it's, if you try to mix it from the beginning, it just becomes a, you know, you start spilling everywhere. So- [laughs]... 29:19 we decided with inspiration of arroz meloso or kind of risotto- Oh... 29:24 we also ta- took that into consideration, and we made a, we made a, uh, a, uh, kinda like a creamy esquites where we add the cheese, w- we add the butter, and we add a little bit of, you know, like, um, like kinda like a mayo that we make, and we mount it with a little bit of mayo, or, you know- Mimolette... 29:39 kind of like- Yeah... yeah, mimolette cheese on top. Mm-hmm. We also use- Okay... and then we do a sourdough cracker. 29:44 Um, kind of feel like also like risottos and all these, uh, type of, like, creamy, you know, rice or porridges- Mm... kind of, you know, they need, like, some sort of cracker. Like, it's a texture. It feels like a... 29:58 Uh, it's like the, the textures are muted, you know? Yeah. So that's why we decided to do a cracker on top- Oh... with cheese. Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh- That was so exciting... 30:07 and so we, we encou- we encourage you to, like, break it- Uh-huh... and kinda mix everything together. That way you can kinda, like, enjoy the textures of the esquites. Mm. I loved all the- Yeah... 30:15 textures and surprising layers going on in that dish. Like, there's hidden stuff inside every dish, I think, that came to our table, so super fun to eat through. 30:26 Um, another dish that I thought was really- I think that's the contra- I think that's the contra, like, I also worked at Contra- Oh, your experience, yeah... for some time. Mm-hmm. You know? 30:35 For some time, and that @, at this, like the, the, the contra, uh, kinda like, you know, like, uh, the- You know, the, the, the thing in your head where you just cover everything with like- [laughs] You know, like [laughs] you, you cover it with kohlrabi- Like what-... 30:49 or cover it with like something. So it's always like cover your food. Right. Right. You know, just, you know, it's just- It's hilarious. Yeah, tuck it in underneath this blanket of tomato for instance, or- Exactly... 30:58 k- kohlrabi slice. And you cut it open. Yeah. Yeah, you can cut it open, and it's like all these things. No, so fun. Yeah. No, I love it. Um- Awesome... 31:05 so another dish that surprised us in a good way was the beef cecina tyleuda, and I'm sorry for my pron- pr- bad pronunciation here. 31:15 But it was funny because, um, Matt, one of our partners, thought he was really excited about this dish, and he described it to us as a beef jerky type of dried out beef dish. And I was like, "Oh, okay. 31:28 You know, that sounds okay I guess. Let's get that." And then it came to the table, and it's basically this beef carpaccio delicately draped o- [laughs] like across the whole plate. 31:38 So I was like, "You know, that's the opposite of a beef jerky." [laughs] It's a raw beef dish. So that was a really funny- Yeah... surprise there. Um, h- what was the inspiration be- behind that one? 31:49 I think all rest- like I think restaurants should have, most of the restaurants have some sort of like raw meat, right? Yeah. Um- Car- mm-hmm. Yeah, either carpaccio or tartare or something like that. Yeah. 32:00 And, uh, before, so he was not wrong. Before we turned beef jerky, we have carne seca in, in northern Mexico. Again, since we have so much, uh, beef and cattle, you know, and, uh- Mm-hmm... 32:12 a dairy product, one of the problems is too much beef, right? Oh. So what we do is we, we slice beef very thinly, and then we air dry it, and that's our carne seca, which it's beef jerky, you know? Mm. 32:25 Literally translated to, you know, dry beef. Uh- Mm-hmm... and we put it, like we sun dry it, and, uh, well, we, we originally sun dry it, and it, you, it's eaten just as beef jerky. 32:37 So what you do to get that is you slice it very thinly, and then you salt it overnight. And then it gets, uh, and then it gets put to the sun. So instead of us- Mm... 32:48 putting it to the sun, and, you know, we decided- Ah... you know, with the idea of doing a, a, a, a carpaccio or a tartare, the idea was, uh, let's season this very like s- heavily season it with salt and let- Yeah... 33:01 let it sit overnight, kinda cure- Oh... uh, overnight in the walk-in, and then we'll just, uh, put it on top of a, a guacamole that is not guacamole. So- [laughs] Because we serve it, we serve it with... 33:13 I'm allergic to guac- uh, avocados, so- Oh, wow... so yeah. So we don't eat a lot of avocado, you know. Um, I don't like avocado that much. Who needs it? You know, so- [laughs] Who needs it when you have edamames? 33:25 So we decided to make an edama- edamame, uh, edamame and, uh, pistachio guacamole. It kinda feels like a guacamole. It does. It feels like a dip, you know? Yeah. So we do that, and we sit this on top of it, you know. Um, 33:39 we sit it, the, the, the, the, the, the beef on top of it. I loved it. I loved how, you know, it was draped beautifully on top, but it was still easy to eat somehow. 33:49 It- like I'd never had a preparation of beef like that before. Um, it was just so delicious. So- Oh, thank you so much... very cool. Yeah. [upbeat music] All right. 34:00 So actually pistachio, that brings me to one of, um, one of the l- fun trivia games we like to play, um, on Shut Up and Eat, and I hope you don't mind playing along. It's called Chef Versus- How is it? All right. 34:13 It's called Chef Versus Robot. So I'm gonna give you three random ingredients, and I'm gonna ask you to verbally come up with a dish you would make using them. You can use any other- Oh my God. It's so hard... 34:24 ingredients. [laughs] But, uh, I'm also gonna ask AI what they made- [laughs]... what they would make with those ingredients. [laughs] Oh, my God. Okay. So you ready to- I'm so nervous. 34:34 [laughs] Well, one of them, you actually just mentioned. So, um- Okay... that made me remember. Okay. So your ingredients are corn, interpret that however you like- Mm-hmm... uh, pistachio, and Spam. Whoa. 34:52 Yep. I think I'll make a soup. Okay. I'll do a corn soup or creamed corn with a crumble of pistachios and a very deep-fried Spam. Ooh. You know? Oh, yeah. 35:07 So it's kinda like you eat it, and you mix it, almost like when you do like potato and bacon soup. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm. Beautiful. At least in my house. 35:14 My mom used to do like a bunch of potato, like kinda like cream of potato. Mm-hmm. And she would like add like bacon bits on it. Yes. And it'll be just so, so, so good. I think I'll do that. I'll do the same. 35:24 I'll just kinda like slowly like render the, the pistachios, and then toast the, the, I mean, slowly render the, the- The Spam... sorry, the Spam. Mm-hmm. 35:33 And then like toast or, you know, toast the pistachios, kind of like dry pan toast them, and then chop 'em all up by hand. Mm-hmm. Make a great, like a cream of corn. Mm. Uh, and then just top it off with that. Oh. Yum. 35:46 Brilliant. That's family meal next week. Yes. Love it. There you go. Thank you. Oh, wow. You know, I'm just, I'm inundated with fr- sweet corn right now. It's the middle of summer, so I'm always looking for more ideas. 35:57 Yeah, of course. That sounds like a good one. Um- Right now we're making, uh, right now, uh, for the next week we're changing our fish course of the tasting menu. Oh. 36:06 And we're making kinda like a xiaolongrouzi with sweet corn. Ooh, yes. Yeah. That works. We're doing like an egg cus- like an egg custard, like an egg custard, very light egg custard. Oh my God. 36:16 And we're serving it with, um, with smoked trout. Oh my goodness. Mm, with a topping? Okay. I'm coming- Yeah. We're gonna like smoke trout, and like, uh, we're gonna smoke it in mesquite. Mm. 36:27 K- again, a celebration of northern Mexico and how we all smoke with mesquite. So it's like- Mm... trout smoked with mesquite bark. Yeah. 36:34 And then, uh, and then, uh, and it's gonna be a corn with, uh, yeah, with, um, just sh- corn chash. Um, I'm, I need to come back for that And, um- Please do... that sounds really good. Okay, tasting menu. Got it. 36:49 Um, yeah, it's so much fun seeing sweet corn on, like, basically everyone's menu this time of year. And, uh- You gotta... seeing the fun, fun things people do with it. 36:58 Um, would you like to hear what ChatGPT did with corn, pistachio, and SPAM? I would love to. Okay. This is actually one of the better answers we've gotten. We've gotten some doozies- Oh, God... over the years. 37:10 Uh- [laughs] Did, did they beat me? No, no, no. I don't think so. Well, I mean, okay, maybe it's more simple because they, they basically made a fried rice. Oh. 37:19 Crisp up the SPAM, diced it, fine dice, crisp 'em up, tossed it with some cooked jasmine rice and, you know, shucked corn, scallions, some sesame oil. Topped it with a fried egg. I mean, this, this thing's just cheated. 37:36 [laughs] He's just... That thing just is hiding, it's hiding the corn and the SPAM- That's true... behind jasmine ri- uh, behind jasmine rice- Oh, yeah... scallions, and egg. No, y- yeah. I won. You're right. 37:48 I d- You- I won... I think you won because you only basically highlighted those ingredients, so that's, that's tough. Yeah, I mean- Yeah... 37:55 I'll, for the soup I'll just do, like, you know, like, obviously garlic and onions and probably cream. Yeah, yeah. Of course. But, but I mean, you know. [laughs] Uh, yeah. Whatever. I won. 38:05 I mean, I would, I would agree with that one. [upbeat music] Okay, that's it for Shut Up and Eat. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and check out our newsletter and killer merch at shutupandeat.com. 38:18 That's Shut Up and Eat, not Shut Up and Eat. This episode was edited and produced by Matt Herrero at Eight Industries. Our executive producer is Peter Chen. Graphic design by Matt Timms. 38:31 And our theme song is Birthday Cake by Chico Mata. Okay. Till next time, shut up and eat, everybody. No, you shut up and eat. No, you shut up and eat. Okay, thanks. I will. My love is sweet
